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What Happened on Earth?
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debonnaire



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 94
Location: France

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:38 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Either God the creator is sovereign over His creation, or God is not.


Yes God is God , omniscient and omnipotent, like it was revealed for example to our sister Hannah

1 Samuel 2

1 Then Hannah prayed and said:
"My heart rejoices in the LORD;
in the LORD my horn [a] is lifted high.
My mouth boasts over my enemies,
for I delight in your deliverance.

2 "There is no one holy like the LORD;
there is no one besides you;
there is no Rock like our God.

3 "Do not keep talking so proudly
or let your mouth speak such arrogance,
for the LORD is a God who knows everything,
and by him all deeds are weighed.


4 "The bows of the warriors are broken,
but those who stumbled are armed with strength.

5 Those who were full hire themselves out for food,
but those who were hungry hunger no more.
She who was barren has borne seven children,
but she who has had many sons pines away.

6 "The LORD brings death and makes alive;
he brings down to the grave and raises up
.

7 The LORD sends poverty and wealth;
he humbles and he exalts.


8 He raises the poor from the dust
and lifts the needy from the ash heap;
he seats them with princes
and has them inherit a throne of honor.
"For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's;
upon them he has set the world.

9 He will guard the feet of his saints,
but the wicked will be silenced in darkness.
"It is not by strength that one prevails;

10 those who oppose the LORD will be shattered.
He will thunder against them from heaven;
the LORD will judge the ends of the earth.
"He will give strength to his king
and exalt the horn of his anointed."

Quote:
the first thing to determine . . . is if God is God.


I wonder what is the 2nd thing Smile
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queeny



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Murrieta California

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
the first thing to determine . . . is if God is God.


I wonder what is the 2nd thing Smile[/quote]


The second might be.....''Are you God's child'' and if we are, how does it happen, by His soverienty? Or is that another topic?

Queeny Very Happy

Let God be God!!!
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 602
Location: Ken in Arkansas, as forum Poster & Member

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: short note
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Just a short note, I haven't forgot about the thread. I am working up some stuff. Debonnaire and queeny, you both make some good points which do lead us to ask the next question, almost before we can truly answer the first. It's working up, and coming together.
Just give me the grace of a few more hours to get it right. The rough draft is looking marvelous, just marvelous. Also, been working on something else i will tell you about. If more comments come to your mind before i can get my next post posted, feel free to include. Until later, later.

your brother in Jesus, Ken
Jesus is the light
Walk in the light
no sunglasses needed. -- Cool
---------- later friends --------
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queeny



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Murrieta California

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:03 am    Post subject: I like your cartoons
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nice cartoons
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 602
Location: Ken in Arkansas, as forum Poster & Member

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: All Righty Then Sis Queeny
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All Righty Then Sis Queeny
Try it Exclamation
Figure out where you want to put, . . . say . . . the bloomin rose.
the url for eden.gif is -- http://www.kf1.org/eden.gif
So then in a post, (you can edit an old post if you want)
So then in a post, (you can do it in this topic if you want)
So then in a post, type [img] url [/img] which looks like this
[img] http://www.kf1.org/eden.gif [/img] type it without spaces . . .
And Eureka . . .
One gets this:-------------------------------
Works for any image if you know its url.
Big pictures do funny things to forums. AVOID BIG PICTURES. Or make them smaller in an image program (microsoft Paint or other)-- That is what I had to do to the Garden pics, make them smaller file wise.

Usually, you need the image to be on "YOUR" webserver. That is why i said i would 'host' the "Garden of Salvation" pictures. . . . but that is another topic. --- little lol ---BIG PRAISE THE LORD -- this morning.

So sis. Try it. That is what i thought you were going to do was post the Garden pictures yourself. . . . A good friend made me one of those signs out of wood. one of them carved ones. . . . its says . . .
You Can Do It. --

Thats no bull. --

IN FACT, what i do is copy my url with a cut and paste, paste it into the post, and above the posting screen is a button with "Img" on it, next to URL and "List=" -- If you cut and paste the url into the post preview box, then highlight and select the url in the preview box. --

Then click the "Img" button and Eureka -- the image url gets the [img] [/img] put around it automatically. Try it and preview.

It is the same thing to quote someone elses post . . . --
[quote ] someone else talking [/quote] ...without spaces equals =
Quote:
someone else talking
[quote ="someone else talking" ]someone else talking[ / quote] ...without spaces equals =
someone else talking wrote:
someone else talking
Try it, play with it, it really isn't that hard.

I think i may use this post as a basis for a forum Help post in Forum Purpose. Or maybe just split the topic.

later sis, n Jesus, ken
Jesus comes.
Cool
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Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 602
Location: Ken in Arkansas, as forum Poster & Member

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Are all creatures God's children?
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Getting back to the subject: Debonnaire is right in that some of the keys to understanding what happened on earth are found in the story of Lucifer's fall.
debonnaire correctly wrote:
According to the scriptures , it seems there has been a rebellion in Heavens before man's disobedience on Earth.
6 "The LORD brings death and makes alive;
he brings down to the grave and raises up.
7 The LORD sends poverty and wealth;
he humbles and he exalts. 1 Samuel 2:6-7 niv?

Under the figure of the King of Tyre, the prophet Ezekiel writes:
2 "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: -- Ezekiel28:2
. . .
5 "By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; -- Ezekiel28:5-6
. . .
8 "They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. -- Ezekiel28:2
. . .
11 "Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire." -- Ezekiel28:11-16 -- Ezekiel28_entire_chapter

Let us look at some other Scripture.
"A wicked man hardeneth his face: but as for the upright, he directeth his way. -- Proverbs 21:29
"Happy is the man that feareth alway: but he that hardeneth his heart shall fall into mischief. -- Proverbs 28:14
"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy. -- Proverbs 29:1
"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." -- Romans 9:18 -- hardeneth_search

The last one, Romans9:16 seems out of place. Let's look at the expanded context.
"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?" -- Romans9:17-19
Note verse 17 -- "... Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee,"
queeny perceptively wrote:
imaken wrote:

the first thing to determine . . . is if God is God.
I wonder what is the 2nd thing
The second might be.....''Are you God's child'' and if we are, how does it happen, by His soverienty? Or is that another topic?
Very well could be the next question, but i was thinking it was more like the third or fourth. WE could make it another topic. We will talk of the wonderful love of Jesus for eternity. There is plenty of server space left. -- LTLL

I'm thinking, the second thing to determine is, "Are all creatures God's children? This gets into what debonnaire said. Jesus said about Lucifer/Satan, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." -- John8:44

Look at it.
Lucifer, as created being, was God's child, even covering cherub, until He became 'perverted'. God lifted up Pharoah just for a purpose. Remember, "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." -- Romans 9:18

" . . . Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" -- Romans9:20
"Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." -- Romans9:18
"Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?" -- Isaiah45:10

Human pride has problems with this. Just like Lucifer, over eons of time, developed a problem with pride. To express this problem in Scripture, "Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture." -- Psalm100:3 -- Another topic could diverge at this point but 'we' will refrain.

Note the idea of "independent ownership" of a particular 'thing' 'belongs' to whomever 'owns' it. God owns us, twice, one in creation, once in redemption, but i diverge. See the following Bible text.

"But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God." -- Acts5:3-4
The definition of 'ownership' is one of the 'definitions of distinguishing' the Lord has put into this world.

It seems to me the next logical question is:
"Are all creatures God's children?" By definition of God being Creator, i believe we have answered that.
The next question? "What happened to Lucifer?"
I believe we have answered that also, to this extent, Lucifer became perverted through a Prideful Heart.
At this point, since I am one of many "creatures of God," i must be a "child of God," then the next question, which queeny has already asked, namely, "Are you God's child," comes to bear.
The answer is already given. Yes, any creature is ultimately on some level, a "Child of God," largest down to the smallest living thing.

What the next question looks like it needs to be is this: "Why did God make/allow Lucifer to become 'perverted'?

There has to be some reasons with more value than "Just to show the Universe a Lesson." No second guessing God here, no no. Learning, is a 'definition of distinguishing' between "The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth" and "Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:" -- Jeremiah10:11 -- Jeremiah32:17

God tells Job, "Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee." -- Job40:7-14

So, Sis queeny & brother debonnaire, it seems we are right on target. After we can answer the question "Why did God make/allow Lucifer to become 'perverted'? Then we need to know real quick if "WE" are a perverted Child of God. Then we need to know really quickly if what has happened to Lucifer can happen to us. Especially since God says bad things are going to happen to Lucifer. Especially since God says it could happen to us.

So what is your take on all of this, at this point, bro debonnaire and sis queeny?
Do you agree that this is a valid question: "Why did God make/allow Lucifer to become 'perverted'?
Do you agree this is a valid question: "Do We Need to know really quickly if what has happened to Lucifer can happen to us?"

later friends, in Jesus, ken
Jesus comes. Period.

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somanyquestions



Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 6

Post reference link - PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: All creatures are a "child of God"
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Yes, any creature is ultimately on some level, a "Child of God," largest down to the smallest living thing.

I believe that I understand what you are saying...and if I may presume...You are speaking in terms of Humans, Animals, Trees etc. etc.?
However, what about different levels of human "children of God"?

Also, if everything is a "child of God" (since I am an animal lover) what about the animals? Are they heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ?

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Romans 8:15-17 (King James Version)


And, if animals or trees are "children of God" what about baptism? If we believe that anything that our Creator has created that has faith in Christ Jesus is "His child" then aren't we saying that there are no different levels
of children? What a can of worms this will open!

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galations 3:26-27 King James Version
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